Tuesday, February 7, 2017

KWPN Stallion Show 2017

I had decided not to do a Stallion Show recap this year, but my thoughts are so jumbled and undecided about what I saw, the state of dressage breeding within both the KWPN and KWPN-NA breeding populations, and how both of these things affect our breeding program that now I'm thinking it could be a helpful process to write about it.

Qualifier  

As I say every year, these thoughts are just my opinions.  I'm not intentionally trying to bash anyone's horse. Because of conversations I've had with a number of people over the last few days, I know there are number of people who disagree with me; so, take this for what it is, one person's opinion.

Overall Focus of Stallion Selection Committee and Direction of Dressage Breeding

A strong mareline has always been a consideration when selecting stallions, but, over the last few years, we've seen the SSC put a markedly stronger focus on sport results in the mareline.  In theory this makes complete sense. A young stallion from a mother line that has produced successful sport horses should himself have a higher probability of being a sport horse and be more likely to produce sport horses.  Not rocket science. Yet, this has led to the selection of a number of stallions that are just not breeding horses.  Having a strong mareline with sport results isn't enough to make a top stallion. The horse himself has to have that something special or extra that makes him a stallion type. From watching the newly selected stallions and the four, five, and six year old stallions under saddle, I think we've approved a number of nice geldings. During the first years of specialization, the KWPN's focus was all about type--they wanted uphill, modern horses in a rectangular dressage model. As can be documented in other breeds, cattle and dog breeding, etc., selecting for a specific type for too long hurts the overall soundness and functionality of the population. We saw this in the overall balance and temperament of some of our horses.  There was a rash of horses with such extreme movement that they could barely take a corner, and we've seen some horses with questionable rideability. What we've seen the last few years is a necessary correction--the jury has been looking for lines proven in sport, so they know the horses have stayed sane and sound, and taken type off the table. Additionally, we've had to look for non Jazz, Flemmingh, and Ferro blood, so the jury has accepted some horses that may have been worth the try, but haven't consistently worked on our population.  What this says to me is that it's more important than ever for us as breeders to have our own plans.  We need to be clear and strong in our vision for what we want our programs to produce. It is through the work of strong breeders that we can bring more focus and consistency to the direction of KWPN dressage breeding.

This Year's Selected Stallions

The stallions presented for the second ring this year were a manifestation of what I've written above.  They're mixed in type and quality. There were a lot of good dressage horses--I'm just not sure how many breeding stallions. 

Ampere

The Amperes were not special this year.  The Ampere x Jazz x May Sherif made it through.  He's nice, but by far not the nicest Ampere I've seen.  I will feel more comfortable breeding to Ampere or an Ampere son when I see some upper level sport horses being produced.  I still worry about the stifles and the temperament. I know it's not completely Ampere's fault he didn't make it in sport, but neither did Rousseau, so that's two stallions in a row in a pedigree that didn't have what it takes to stay sound and sane enough to become competition horses. Gives me pause.

Apache

Well.  I've been seriously bummed that neither our two attempts with Apache frozen nor our multiple attempts with Indian Rock (Apache x Cabochon) worked, but now I'm thinking fate may have been being kind to us.  It was not a good stallion show for Mr. Apache.  His newly presented sons were nice but not as nice as in previous years.  The SSC took the Apache x Hitchock x Onyx, and he was selected for the Championship Ring, but he didn't show well.  His sons under saddle were the real story, though--they were difficult as hell. Grand Galaxy Win was the only one who appeared truly rideable.  Combine this with the fact Apache himself is so hot and has such difficulty traveling for competition and I'm putting the brakes on my Apache fandom. Fantastic movers and fairly consistent types, but he needs to be bred to a mare with a stellar work ethic and temperament.

Aqiedo x Jazz x Juriaan

Aqiedo is one of Adelinde Cornelissen's top horses.  I'm sure the jury took this colt because of this. He has a lot of power, but not enough front.  The mareline is uninteresting.  Even if he eventually gets approved, no one will breed to this horse.

Blue Horse Zack

With Zack recently becoming erkend, the jury clearly wanted one of his sons. Well, not only did they take one, they made him Champion of the whole shebang.  Zack x Negro x Krack C x Contango.  Good pedigree.  Weakish mareline, though his mother is producing well. The horse is definitely uphill and has good use of the hind leg, but he doesn't use his body well at all.  He's short coupled and stiff in the back.  Not a breeding stallion in my opinion.  He's also really tall for a horse who won't be three until May 1st--1.71.  The jury has seen him more times than I and they have more information about the mareline, so I'm assuming I'm wrong about this horse.  Which is fine.  I liked him, and he was the best of the ones presented, but he wouldn't have been my pick for the Championship Ring, let alone the Champion. I spoke with a number of people who really liked this horse, so, again, I'm probably just being grouchy or something.

     Speaking of the Championship Ring

The KWPN charged the owners of any horse selected for the Championship Ring 7000 Euro for the extra promotion and time in front of the audience. 7000 Euro.  Evidently, they get at least some of it back if they put the horse through the testing and all of it back if they put the horse in the Select Sale, but that would certainly put a damper on my stallion being selected for the Championship Ring if I knew it was going to cost me 7000 Euro.

Bon Bravour

Regular readers of my journal know I'm a huge Bon Bravour fan.  Well, unfortunately, my disappointment in his sons is growing. The one son they accepted this weekend should not have been accepted.  He had no canter.  Bon Bravour x Flemmingh x Jazz x Chronos, so double Chronos.  He's a beautiful type and showed a lovely trot in hand, but, overall, a really disappointing horse.  The Bon Bravour son, Iconic B ( x Jazz),  was Champion of the testing this year.  Under saddle this weekend, he, too, was disappointing. He seems to be a nice horse, good character, decent trot, but I really didn't like his canter either. It had power, but almost no articulation in the joints.  I don't think anyone has found the right niche for Bon Bravour.  Now, given that he's been chemically gelded, we'll see if anyone gets that chance.

Bordeaux

Here's another stallion we've bred to repeatedly without success, and maybe that's not a bad thing. I was super disappointed in the Bordeauxs this year.  The SSC took two of them, the Bordeaux x Apache and the Bordeaux x Painted Black.  All of them are wide behind and long in the hind leg.  Just not impressed.

Capri Sonne Jr. x Hexagon's Louisville x Rubiquil

They must have wanted a Capri Sonne son badly to take this horse. He's really old fashioned, completely uninteresting pedigree (although he does have some sport horses in his pedigree), and he became less and less impressive each time we saw him. He might turn into a good dressage horse, but he is not a breeding stallion.  I will be surprised if he breeds half a dozen mares.

Charmeur

We've seen enough Charmeurs now to know what to expect.  They tend to be a little heavy, old fashioned, powerful, and hot.  Some of them are really special, but even the special ones tend to push rather than lift in their movement. I loved the Charmeur x Rubin Royal horse. He was my third favorite horse of the whole show, but I would like to see him lift more in his movement and sit a little better.  The jury also selected the Charmeur x Hotline--another good horse who had more lift, but was a little stiff in the topline.  He looked better in hand. I think it's time to break from Charmeur and see what his offspring do in sport.

Danciano x Diamond Hit x Belissimo M x Sandro Hit

I quite liked this horse.  Short front leg, good use of his body, good in hand, a little slow in the hind leg.  He's not an ideal type, but he uses his body well, has a good depth of muscling, and has an interesting outcross pedigree. No information on the mareline.

DeNiro

We all know DeNiro is currently the top producer of dressage horses across all studbooks.  It's just no contest. You may also know we bought a DeNiro colt this summer as a stallion prospect, so I'm obviously a fan.  That being said, he's a really inconsistent producer type wise. Some are small, some huge.  Some really strong movers, some seriously lacking power and articulation. I know the jury was disappointed in the selection of DeNiros presented to them.  They are giving three of them a chance at the testing, the DeNiro x Santano (full brother to ours, half brother to both our UTV mares, Gazania and Hyacintia), the DeNiro x Riccione, and the DeNiro x Florencio (out of the Wendy line)--all three of these boys are completely different types and different kinds of movers.  I think we're going to have to see them under saddle, and, maybe, wait a few years to know just how successful DeNiro is going to be on the Dutch mare population.

Good news and bad news for us:  Having the full brother of ours accepted is great for our mareline and reassures me that our colt has the pedigree and mareline to be interesting to the KWPN, but it's doubtful a full brother will get approved in Holland, so we'll most likely bring him to North America for approval.

Desperado (Vivaldi)

The Desperados were really consistent.  Nice strong types, good bodies, but all of them are a little to heavy on the forehand.  The jury took the Desperado x Wynton and the Desperado x Fidertanz.  Both are good horses, but both could come off the forehand a little more.

Easy Game x Summertime x Sixtus

All Trakehner breeding.  Lovely horse. Flat in the movement and needs more power, but nice breeding to cross on the KWPN population.  We'll have to see what he produces.

El Capone

I loved the El Capones. Super dressage horses.  A little inconsistent in their power, but super articulation--all of them were better in hand, showing really good bending of the joints.  The type is consistent, maybe could be a little longer lined and slightly more modern.  I was surprised the jury didn't put the one they selected in the Championship Ring.  El Capone x Krack C x Roemer.

Enzo Ferrari x Jazz x Burggraaf

This was a nice horse.  Super supple, powerful, really expressive with the knees and hocks.  In hand he looked weak in the loin connection, but I didn't see this in his free movement.

Ferdeaux

A number of people were quite enthusiastic about the Ferdeauxs.  I am, too, but with reservations.  I can't get over their hocks--sickled and pointy, consistently.  They're uphill, large framed, a little old fashioned and good movers.  They accepted the Ferdeaux x Jazz and the Ferdeaux x Metall, who was invited to the Championship Ring.

Ferdinand x Santano x Hemmingway

This was my second favorite horse of the show. Loved him.  Big frame but still modern, powerful, very good mover, balanced, maybe a little straight in the shoulder.  I knew he was going to be invited into the Championship Ring--I would have made him the Champion.

Five Star x San Remo x Gribaldi

Another super horse.  I thought he was going to be invited into the Championship Ring.  Fantastic mover.  Powerful and supple.  Great type.  Maybe a little short in the croup. Especially good bending of the joints.

For Romance x Don Crusador x Wolkenstein II

Nice horse.  Really nice in hand.  I think he's an interesting outcross. Supple.  A little heavy.

Gandhi x Don Vino x Weltmeyer

Beautiful horse.  Uphill, great type, slow in the hind leg.

Johnson

The Johnsons were really consistent in type and movement.  They tend to have really pretty fronts, a lot of depth in the muscling, maybe a little short in the croup and slow in the hind leg, but nice dressage horses.  The jury only selected one of the Johnsons, the Johnson x Fidertanz x Rubin Royal.  Interestingly enough, he was the one that least looked like a Johnson. He was a really good mover, really supple and through his body.  In hand, he began to look tired and sunken in the back.

Lord Leatherdale

The KWPN has jumped on the Lord Leatherdale x Negro cross hardcore over the last few years.  It's produced some good horses, but we've yet to see those horses produce especially well.  They only took one this year, the Lord Leatherdale x Negro x Ulster.  There was nothing special about this horse; however, his dam is the famous mare, Dolly.  She has to be the reason he was accepted.

Negro

Understandably, the SSC has taken a chance on any halfway decent horse with Negro in the first three generations over the last few years. I've become a Negro appreciator, but not a huge Negro fan--still, there is no denying he produces FEI horses, and lots of them, and all of them with a strong ability for collection. The type is often a little too short and thick for my tastes. Of course, if you think of the Andalusians and Lipizzaners that are so well-suited for the extreme collection necessary for exhibition dressage, it's no wonder the the Negros also excel at the collection--many of them are built like the Iberian horses. There were a bunch of Negros in Den Bosch, but the SSC only took one of them, the Negro x Johnson x Vincent. He's a big, oddly built, heavy horse with a weak loin and back, and a short croup.  Imagine my surprise when the jury put him in the Championship Round.  I was stunned.  He has a good use of the hindleg.  He has a great mareline.  But...not a breeding horse in my estimation. Again, I've only seen the horse once.  The jury has seen him a couple of times.  There's obviously something I don't see they really like about him, so I'm probably off about this one, too.

Ravel x Krack C x Wolkentanz II

Here's a horse I thought should have been in the Championship Ring. Lovely, long-lined horse.  Super mover.  Great articulation of the joints.  Interesting pedigree and mareline. He's a little long in the hindleg, but he uses it super well. He's the best Ravel offspring I've seen. I'll bet he gets some mares.

Rousseau x Apache x Jazz

This was an interesting horse.  Really nicely balanced.  Modern type.  Pretty front.  He could have a little more power, but he improved in hand.  I was surprised he didn't go for a higher price in the Select Sale.  Could be that his pedigree is so infused with KWPN stalwarts he won't attract that many mares. Could also be that some Rousseaus are known to be sensitive and we had just witnessed a number of Apaches being difficult. Put that on top of Jazz, and you could have a handful.

Sezuan

The jury wanted a Sezuan.  They took two. I liked both of them a lot. You couldn't have found two half brothers who looked and moved much more differently.  The Sezuan x Jazz is HUGE. 1.77.  Great horse. Got a little tired as the day went on and seemed slower in the hindleg, but I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt because of his size.  In contrast, the Sezuan x DeNiro is 1.63.  Short legged, supple, weaker in the back, but super expressive.

United x Uphill x Metall

This was a really nice horse. I thought he had a chance of being invited for the Championship Ring. Great mover, nice type, good use of the body, supple.  Maybe he could have a little more power, but he was fantastic in hand, and he looked better and better every time we saw him.

Uthopia x UB-40 x Flemmingh

Such a pretty horse. Beautiful front.  Lovely mover.  Could use more power.

Vivaldi

We have a lot of Vivaldi sons now, so it takes a really special one to get approved.  The Vivaldi x Ferro is special.  For the record, this was Keagan's favorite horse of the show. Great mover. Lots of power.  I don't understand why he wasn't in the Championship Ring.  He was the high seller of the Select Sale.  Went for 160,000 Euro.  Super nice horse.

While I'm talking about Vivaldi, I need to state again how wrong I was about him as a sire.  I still see his offspring sink down their backs and throw out their front legs, but under saddle they work.  They have such good temperaments and attitudes that they work hard and get strong enough to compensate for the weakness in their topline.  I'm way behind on using him in our program.  I wish his frozen were better--I'd use him on a few mares this year.

Zhivago

Zhivago wasn't used much in Holland, but he's been used extensively in Sweden and parts of Germany.  Two sons were presented this year. They're remarkably similar in type, but one significantly stronger and more correct than the other.  He produces a beautiful front, really good movement, but the offspring drop off behind the wither and can have a weakish back.  He's another horse out of the Wendy line, so you can be guaranteed there's a strong capacity for movement in the gene pool.  The Zhivago x Licato x Caretino was one of my favorites of the show.  I think he would have been invited to the Championship Ring if he had been bred in Holland.

Quasar de Charry x Londonderry x Bogenschuetze

I can't tell you anything about this pedigree, other than the Dutch typically don't like Quaterback or his sons. Obviously, he was chosen as an outcross for KWPN lines.  He's a nice horse in type, but so clearly not Dutch that I'm afraid he won't cross consistently on our mares.  He's really slow in the hindleg, needs more power, but a nice type and clearly a stallion type.

Young Horses Under Saddle of Particular Note

As you have probably surmised if you've read the rest of this entry, there weren't that many young stallions under saddle that wowed me. I'll just write about the ones I did like and a couple a number of you are probably interested in hearing about.

Dettori (Desperado (Vivaldi) x De Niro)

This is a nice stallion. He showed good use of his body, good movement, good depth of muscling, and the right blend of hot and workable.  I liked him a lot.

Four Legends (Wynton x Ferro)

When I saw Four Legends as a two and a half year old, I liked him, but I thought he was small and needed more power.  As most everyone  knows, he's gone on to develop beautifully under saddle, selling for 600,000 Euro at the Excellent Dressage Sale last summer.  He looks fantastic. He's still a little small, but he's a top dressage horse. It will be interesting to see what he produces.  My guess is he's going to need to be crossed on large-framed, long-legged mares.

In Style (Eye Catcher x Lorentin I)

I wasn't crazy about this horse last year, but under saddle he's a really nice stallion.  He got a little tired toward the end of the presentation and lost some of his strength and pizzaz, but he's a nice horse. Much better under saddle than he was in hand and free moving last year.

Incognito (Davino VOD x Vivaldi)

North American breeders should pay attention to this horse. He's owned by Nijhof, so there's a good chance we'll have access to his frozen.  He's a lovely horse.  Supple, powerful, and really rideable from what I could see.  I liked him a lot.

Indian Rock (Apache x Vivaldi)

Mr. Indian Rock was better behaved than his half brother, but he was still a handful. I like him under saddle, but he may just need to get stronger to have the same impressive presence as he did last year at the selection. I was less disappointed about not having a foal coming from him after seeing him than I was before. Given what a handful the Apache offspring seem to be, I think I'm good waiting a bit.

The Everdales

There were two, Inspire (Everdale x Don Romantic) and Inverness (Everdale x Johnson).  I can't remember which one I liked, but I liked one of them a lot and one not at all.  I know that's not helpful.

Henkie (Alexandro P x Upperville)

Henkie is equally as impressive under saddle as he was a couple of years ago in free movement and in hand.  He's really a top horse.  And, for the first time ever, the Oldenburg Association has made an exception and licensed a Gelders stallion.  He deserves it.  From the first few foals of his I've seen, I don't think breeders have found the right mares for him, however.  The foals are small, lacking power, and development.  We'll see what they look like as three year olds.

The Totilas Boys

Here we go! I'm not normally a vindictive person, nor am I one who is wont to rub people's noses in their own verbal feces, but from the beginning Totilas has struck an emotional nerve in me, and I have nearly deified him. Every negative post about him hurt me personally. "He's completely manufactured. None of that movement is real." "He will never produce offspring that move like him." "He's been bred to the best mares in the world, so if he does produce something good, it's probably the mare and not him." Bullshit.  Bullshit.  And more bullshit. Totilas is a stallion who produces balance, a great walk, a great canter, and a developable trot. Consistently. He's not consistent in type.  Some of them can be small.  Some of them can be hot as hell.  But, without fail, he produces an athletic horse, and from a wide range of pedigrees. His sons were hands down the best young riding horses we saw in Den Bosch.

     Governor (Totilas x Jazz)

I don't know if Governor is my favorite of the Totilas sons under saddle, but he certainly appears to cross well on my marelines.  Under saddle, he looks a little odd.  His neck is developing muscling underneath rather than along the crest, he looks small and short coupled, and his tail is often held off to the side.  That being said, he's super adjustable and really supple.  His hind leg is always under him, and he shows great suspension and softness in his movement.  He's also developing a lot more power. Additionally, he has a superior temperament and good rideability.

     Glock's Toto Jr. (Totilas x Desperados)

I stood next to this horse last summer at the PAVO Cup. He's not very big.  In the ring, however, he looks huge.  He has so much presence. And, he's HOT.  His front leg use is expressive and commanding. His hind leg is not as good as Governor's.  A bigger concern for me is how quickly he falls onto the forehand when his rider releases the reins. In the test we watched, the riders are supposed to bring the hands forward three times while on the circle to demonstrate the horse in self carriage.  There were three horses in the ring during Toto Jr.'s test.  The other two clearly put their hands forward, way up the neck, for a solid two count. Toto Jr.'s rider moved her hands forward about four inches in a half count.  When she did release the reins completely, the horse clearly went onto his forehand. I don't think he's in true self carriage. I think a big part of that is he has a weakish hind leg.  This being said, he certainly looks impressive, and he's bred a lot of mares.  The foals I've seen are quite small, but they're good movers.  We'll see.

     Trafalgar (Totilas x Lord Loxley)

Such a cool horse.  He's gorgeous, really well put together, a super mover, super rideable.  I was completely impressed by him.  I don't know enough about his pedigree to make any commentary, but I'm going to be watching to see what he produces

     Total US (Totilas x Sir Donnerhall)

When Michaela and I saw Total US this summer at the PAVO Cup, he was so hot that I kind of wrote him off. At the Stallion Show, he was still really hot, but much more rideable. He is a fantastic mover and the best type of all the Totilas sons. I thought about breeding to him last year, but upon learning he is a cribber, I decided against it. Come to find out, there are a number of Totilas offspring that crib.  I hate that.  We've had two direct offspring and three grandchildren so far, and none of them show any indication that they're cribbers.  For the positives he brings to the equation, I think it's worth the risk.

The Valegro Show

I didn't take any notes during the tribute to Valegro, but there are a number of breeding observations that can be made from the horses that took part in it.

Valegro Himself (Negro x Gershwin)

He is undoubtedly a cool horse. Such talent and physical ability. I don't know whether it's all of the muscling from years of dressage training and competing or if it's his genetics, but he's built much more like the horses bred and raised for exhibition dressage.  His legs are short, his body is wide, he's fairly short coupled, and he's pretty heavy in type.  On the pedigree databases, he's listed at 172 cm.  I don't believe it.  I haven't stood right next to him, so I could be wrong, but he seems much shorter than that. His dam is listed at 170 cm. In one of the loveliest moments of his tribute, his breeders led his dam through the arena to very appreciative applause.  That mare is not 170 cm.  She looks like a fuzzy pony. She's cute as can be, and she deserves as many accolades as the KWPN and the public can afford her, but she's tiny. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm just trying to put all the pieces together in processing what we look for when we're breeding dressage horses.  I'm not sure size matters.

The Negro Sons and Grandsons

I don't have specific notes on many of them. As I mentioned earlier in this post, Negro consistently produces horses with a capacity for the movements and rigor of upper level dressage. There were a ton of Negro offspring in the ring at one time.  All of them were demonstrating a strong ability for collection. I'm just going to talk about a couple stallions to whom we North American breeders have access

     Everdale (Lord Leatherdale x Negro)

I've always thought Everdale moves and looks more like a cart horse than a dressage horse, but I was so blown away by his offspring inspection that I had to breed to him. Now that he's a few years older, he's looking better and better. He wasn't terribly expressive, but he actually looks more modern in type and more correct in his movement than he did as a young horse.  I was impressed by him.  I'd like to see him have more power and be a little more electric, but he's developing really nicely.

     Glamourdale (Lord Leatherdale x Negro)

I've seen this horse a number of times now.  He always looks the same to me.  Black. Powerful. Not much bending in the body. Consistent. He's beautiful and clearly talented, but I just don't see him progressing and developing as much as I would like. He looks the same now under saddle as he did a couple years ago in the PAVO Cup.

A Few Other Horses of Note

I'm going to wrap this up soon.  We have a snow day today, and I had all kinds of plans, but I've spent most of the day watching the Patriots' Victory Parade on TV and writing this journal post. Carol is outside working on the barn, so I should probably get my lazy butt outside and help her.  Before I close, I want to mention a couple other stallions, however.

Eyecatcher (Vivaldi x TCN Partout)

I have loved this horse from the first time I saw him under saddle in the warm up ring. There are very few horses that have his ability to articulate the joints in movement the way he does.  I could watch him all day.  He had surgery a bit ago and had to go through a recovery period, so he's a little behind in his training, but he looked amazing in Den Bosch.  He was my favorite of the entire show again this year.

Expression (Vivaldi x Vincent)

Here's another impressive Vivaldi son.  Expression is much longer lined than Eyecatcher, but he clearly lives up to his name.  I love to watch him under saddle.  When he was a bit younger, I thought he looked kind of big and clunky, but he's developing beautifully.  

Jack Sparrow (Expression x Vivaldi x Negro x Rohdiamant)

If I could have taken home one horse from this year's show, this is the horse I would have picked. Given his pedigree, he was the center of some confusion and controversy.  He's the product of two half siblings.  His breeder ordered Uphill for his mare, but, without knowing it, received Expression. I don't think they figured it out until the DNA test. At any rate, he was the best young stallion presented this year.  Of course, the jury couldn't accept him because of the inbreeding, but he sold to Andreas Helgstrand and is now licensed Oldenburg.  If his frozen semen becomes available, I will breed to him.

Jurist (Don Tango B x Krack C x Aram x Pion)

This colt was not selected for the testing. He's one of four I put an asterisk next to immediately.  He's one of two for which I wrote, "Wow!" Within 30 seconds of his being in the ring, I was sure he would be Champion or Reserve of the whole show. He was also Michaela's favorite. Someone had just asked me if I had seen any horses that blew me away, and I had had to reply, "No." This horse blew me away. Super balanced, super bending of the joints, supple.  And, he got even better in hand. The jury said he didn't have enough power, so they didn't accept him.  There were a hell of a lot of horses with significantly less power than this horse they did accept, so I was suspicious and did a little investigative work.  It seems that Don Tango B has been turned out and taken out of training because he is so difficult. Interesting.  He was approved, even with OCD, because his full brother was a successful Grand Prix horse being groomed for the Dutch team, but died unexpectedly. Hard to have better sport in the mareline than that. Again, the jury has a lot more information at its disposal than do I--they probably know something I don't know, but the Tolman family loved this horse. 

In Conclusion

I hope this is helpful information.  Again, take it for what it's worth.  For all you know, I'm Trump's 600 pound kid sitting in a bedroom in New Jersey trying to hack the KWPN. Advice is always worth what you pay for it. Nonetheless, writing this has helped me articulate my thoughts, so I appreciate the forum. 


1 comment:

  1. What would be your choice of stallion for a Charmeur x Zizzi Top mare ,a good dam line that has produced several good stallions . The mare herself can be hot ,is quite old fashioned . Could do with more lift and certainly doesnt need to be any shorter through the back although she isnt short herself . Thank you for your thoughts

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