And the Breeding Begins...

So, this is what a just-under-40 follicle looks like on my ultrasound screen:

Good edema, strong structure to the follicle--I gave the shot of Sucramate this morning, so, hopefully, knock on wood, the breeding gods are with me and I'll be doing my first frozen semen breeding of the year tomorrow afternoon.  This lovely follicle contains the egg which is the planned recipient of the fastest/in-the-right-place-at-the-right-time Governor sperm cell.  Governor x UB-40 x Pass the Glass xx.

You never know for sure, but, since I've already paid for my frozen semen and received the first three shipments (my experimental stallion is not getting used this year due to the family competition), my breeding picks are fairly settled at this point in time:

LaVita x Gaspard
Mistral x Gaspard
Nemels x Governor
*Orchis x Apache
Werites SSF x Gaspard
ZaVita SSF x Apache or Governor
BoWendy x UB-40
D'Orites SSF x Fairytale
*Eliscia SSF x Governor
Felicites SSF x undecided fresh cooled
*Gazania x Bordeaux
*Honorites SSF x UB-40 (preg check next week)
Hyacintia x Chagall D+R

*family competition entry

Did you just count 13 breedings?  So did I.  If we decide to import Hyacintia and all the mares get in foal, then one of the older mares is for sale after I get her back in foal. We only have 12 stalls.

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I'm an idiot.  Forgot to post this.  So, update:  Bred Eliscia SSF at 9:30 last night, within a couple hours of ovulation--lavaged her this morning at 5:30 and gave her a shot of Oxytocin.  Keep your fingers crossed for a black dot in about two weeks.  Perfect breeding.

Godot SSF For Sale

I'm really bummed about having to post this, and have been procrastinating.  We sold Sammy two times as a young horse, and both times I backed out of the sale.  As those of you who follow our horses know, he went to become the high scoring adult dressage horse in North America this year.

He was started last year by Phil Shipman and Joe Forrest, brought along by Lilly Josephs, and then spent the winter in Florida with Eiren Crawford.  He just attended his first show in the craziness of Wellington, winning the four-year-old qualifier, with super high scores for gaits, despite some really bad luck and some first-show jitters. He's a sensible, super talent who loves to work.  Everyone who has spent any time with him has fallen in love with him.

He's truly a young horse with international potential.  I can't justify keeping him for myself.  His price is in the six figures.  I will post pictures, video, and complete contact information for Eiren Crawford on my sales page in the near future.

Godot SSF "Sammy"

(UB-40 x Sir Sinclair x Jazz x Ulft)

Update: A Little Family Competition or "Creating a Monster"

I have to take complete responsibility for the events, both immediate and long-term, that have and will have transpired because of an idea I proposed to my family:

(much of this conversation started via our family text message group)

Scot:  I would like to propose a little family competition.  We each make an SSF breeding decision,
          choice of mares to be negotiated or by lottery, and the winner is determined by Bart and Lana
          via the ringing order at next year's keuring.  Any takers?

Carol:  What do I get if I win?

Scot:  An orange ribbon!  Isn't winning enough?

Michaela:  Not a fair fight, but I'm in.  What are the terms?

Scot:  How not fair?  I will obviously win; I know.

Michaela:  An opportunity to beat you is better than no opportunity to beat you. Name the terms.

Scot:  Option one--we each pick a stallion we really want to use in the program, which you and
          Keagan have already done, then we negotiate who gets which mare.  Maybe no one else wants
          to use the mare you want to use, so your choice is available with no negotiation.  Option two--
          We pick four mares out of the program, put their names in a hat, and the we draw names.  Each
          person then has to pick the stallion he or she thinks will produce the top foal of next year.

(more conversation about possible terms for the selection of mares and how to measure the success of our decisions--at this point in time, Keagan has not weighed in. Next conversation happened between Carol and me one night last week)

Scot:  So, what do you think of my breeding competition idea?

Carol:  Hmm?

Scot:  The family text message I sent.  What do you think?

Carol:  Oh.  You want me to be part of that?

Scot:  Yes!  Absolutely.  I want it to be a family competition.

Carol:  But I don't know as much about the bloodlines as you guys do.  I'd have to start researching
            stallions.

Scot:  Seriously?  I thought you'd already made your pick.

Carol:  No.

Scot:  Really?

Carol:  Who would I have picked?

Scot:  BoWendy bred to UB-40.

Carol:  And why would I have picked that combination?

Scot: Because you're practical, you hate wasting money on frozen semen, and you've seen three
         babies out of this cross that are probably the best movers we've bred.

Carol:  Hmm.

(This next conversation took place in the car on the way to NYC on Saturday morning.  Keagan, Carol, and I drove together; Michaela took the bus from Boston and met us there, so her parts of the conversation were via text)

Scot:  So what do you guys think about the competition?  Are you up for it?

Keagan:  This is the breeding competition?

Scot:  Yeah.

Keagan:  How would it work?

(I explain again)

Keagan:  So it's a competition?

Scot:  Yeah.

Keagan:  Orchis.

Scot:  What?

Keagan:  I call Orchis.

Carol:  (starts laughing)

Scot:  Really?

Keagan:  Yup.  It's a competition.  I want to win.  Apache on Orchis gives me the best chance of
               winning.

(Carol is smiling.  My heart has sunk to the depth of my bisected colon--I'm thinking this kid could actually beat me)

Scot:  OK.  We'll have to see who everyone else wants, but thanks for putting that out there. Who's
          your pick, Carol?

Carol:  I don't know.  I think Dior is going to be a great producer.  I love Nora.

Scot:  (to Keagan)  I told your mother I thought she'd already made her pick, but she says no.

Keagan:  Who did you say she picked?

Scot:  UB-40 on BoWendy.  (to Carol)  OK, who's your pick?

Carol:  UB-40 on BoWendy.

(We laugh. Lots of joking about me losing and having to be handicapped. Now, we involve Michaela via text message)

Scot:  Keagan picks Orchis.  Mommy wants Bo.  Who is your pick?

Michaela:  Whoa!!! Not sure I like these mares being tied up...

Keagan:  You snooze you lose ;)  We told dad he hows so much he gets Jules (our 24-year-old
                Morgan mare).

Scot:  It's all negotiable.  Make your pick.

Michaela:  Gazania.

Keagan:  Big moves!  This is certainly not a birthday present for dad ;) ;)

Carol:  Wait a minute!  I want Gazania! I forgot she was available.

Michaela:  Hahaha! It's negotiable...Lilly is still available.

(more conversation in the car--then Keagan texts Michaela again)

Keagan:  I'm good and dad wants Lilly, so that's set.  Stallions?

Scot:  I need to think a bit.

Keagan:  I'm set with Apache.

Michaela:  Thinking.

Keagan:  Mom is going with UB.

(and more back and forth)

So, it looks as if the Tolman Family 2016 Best Foal Competition is under way.  Interestingly enough, we all picked a different mare we think can produce the best baby.  I think our decisions on mares are set, though Carol, while doing chores on Sunday night muttered something under her breath about switching to Nora, but not sure if she wants to take the risk since Nora is a maiden mare.

Those of you who agonize over your breeding picks the way I do can imagine the mixed emotions coursing through me over this competition:  I have to give up making the pick on three of my mares, but the people I love the most are completely engaged in making breeding picks this year--I could lose and have to live with that reality for a LONG time, yet, again, what's more fun than talking breeding picks with people you love?

As the competition winds up, here's where we currently stand:

Keagan:  Orchis to Apache

Carol:  BoWendy to UB-40, or maybe take a chance on Honorites SSF

Michaela:  Gazania x undecided.  We had a made a decision to keep her crosses pretty much Jazz free so we can use her offspring in our program, but this is a competition, so Michaela is considering all options.

Scot:  Eliscia SSF to Charmeur or Jazz himself.

Anyone want to make a wager who wins this competition?  I'd love to have some comments on this thread about your predictions!

Update:

And we an adjustment to the initial line up!  Carol announced this morning she's going with Honorites SSF (Totilas x Jazz) as her mare for the competition.  I don't think she's definitely settled on her stallion pick, but it's looking like UB-40.  (I know, Meghan; you're heart just skipped a few beats!)

Interesting Mare Available: Elite w/Sport Predicate and Confirmed 3rd Level

One of my contacts in Holland is focusing on other aspects of her horse business and, therefore, disbanding her breeding program.  She contacted me to help find the right home for this mare.  The mare is priced really reasonably, has an extremely desirable, contemporary pedigree, already Elite and has her sport predicate at 3rd level.  The biggest concern is that this mare is in the right home.  She's a super sweet mare with an exceptional character. Plus, you could breed her to any European stallion before importing!

Let me know if you're seriously interested, and I'll give you more information.

Question from a Reader: Breeding a Morgan Mare

"I reached out to you a while back about crossing my Morgan mare with a warm blood. I was wondering what your experience has been with this and what I should look for in a stallion. I am looking for something with better movement and a bit more size than what my girl has. I primarily ride dressage. I got my mare from a rescue, she is 6 with the most wonderful personality, unfortunately she has some trouble with movement and most likely will just be my trail buddy as she loves it. As someone who will not be able to ever afford to be able to purchase something a bit nicer for dressage I have considered breeding her. I would appreciate any recommendations as I am flying blind here."

We love our Morgans, and over the years we've had a number of them.  In the early 1990s I was even leaning toward our primary focus being a Warmblood Morgan cross.  As fate would have it, our breeding program took off, and, although we've done a few Morgan crosses, the success of our Dutch horses has taken precedence over any other breeding.  That being said, I can tell you what I've learned and observed over the years of looking at this cross.

Although the Morgans bring a soundness, hardiness, trainability, and versatility to the table, they also come with a few drawbacks for dressage--all tied into the top line of the horse.  One, they're bred to have a lot of hock and knee action, but that action is primarily up and down, not up and out.  Two, and connected to number one, they generally have weaker loin connections than warmbloods, so they don't transfer weight onto the hind quarters as easily and naturally as most warmbloods. And, three, and also tied into one and two, Morgans don't usually have the best canters.  Of course, there are exceptions to theses traits; I've seen a few Morgans over the years that are true sport horses in a smaller package, but the majority of the Morgans bred for the contemporary show ring don't have the top line of a sport horse. So, in breeding a Morgan for dressage, if you're lucky enough to start with a mare that has desirable sport horse traits, then you'll have a chance of producing a decent baby.  If not, then your chances of breeding a new sport horse for yourself are really slim.  If you're going to try it, you want to make sure you pick a stallion who consistently produces a good canter and true lift in the withers.  Our most successful dressage baby out of the Morgan cross was from the stallion Polansky on Sunbolt Linda Gail, who was a blend of old school park horse and Government breeding.

What I'm going to say next is going to sound both like an act of shameless self promotion and a little harsh.  Here's the harsh part:  If you already know this mare herself doesn't have the movement to be more than a trail horse, than you're probably making a mistake trying to breed her in an attempt to produce a future dressage horse for yourself.  If you calculate the cost of the stud fee, semen shipping costs, collection fees, vet fees, maintaing the mare through the pregnancy and lactation, etc, etc, it's going to be pretty easy to spend $5,000 or more.  And, after you've spent that, you're probably not going to have the horse you wanted.  Here's the shameless self-promotion part:  Our business plan is to sell our babies on terms that people can afford.  You can buy a baby, that's already on the ground and observable, out of arguably the best collection of KWPN dressage mares in North America on monthly payments you can afford. The total is going to cost you more than it would cost you to produce your own baby out of your Morgan mare, but, in the end, you're going to end up with a horse that is bred to have the ability and conformation to do the job you want.

If you really love your mare and can be happy if she produces something just like her, then breed her.  We have certainly made some breeding decisions based on our emotional attachment to our mares.  Just make sure to pick a stallion who reliably produces uphill movement with a great canter. But, if you really want a future dressage partner, talk to me or another dressage breeder about the possibilities of payments and working with you to get a baby that's really going to allow you to pursue your dreams.

Breedings for 2016 Foals

I know!  I just wrote that I wasn't going to post our breeding picks this year.  Well, as it turns out, I've had two more inquiries on 2016 babies, so that's three of next year's foals that are potentially already spoken for, in addition to three from this year already spoken for.  If people are planning that far in advance, and we're in the business of selling babies, then it makes sense that I talk about our breeding picks.  As always, we happily accept terms on our foal sales, so if there's a potential cross you're interested in from this year's crop or next, give me a shout. Unless it's a "designer baby", I do reserve the right to keep a foal that I just can't part with--that's why I don't take deposits. You can see all of our mares on our mares' page:  http://shootingstarfarm.com/mares.html

2015 Crosses on the Way:

UB-40 x Vincent x El Corona
Governor x Samber x Lector (first option taken)
UB-40 x Freestyle x Jazz
Governor x Contango x Elcaro
UB-40 x Sir Sinclair x Jazz (first option taken)
Fairytale x Donatelli x Jazz (first option taken)
Eye Catcher x Bon Bravour x Santano (not for sale)

2016 Plans:

UB-40 x Elcaro x Belisar
Alexandro P x Vincent x El Corona
Governor x Samber x Lector
Fairytale x Jazz x Roemer
******** x Freestyle x Jazz (first option potentially taken/"Designer" baby)
Apache x Contango x Elcaro
UB-40 x Sir Sinclair x Jazz
Fairytale x Donatelli x Jazz (first option taken)
Chagall x UB-40 x Pass the Glass xx (first option taken)
Grey Flanell x Bon Bravour x Santano
"Tolman Experiment" x Totilas x Jazz
Chagall x Charmeur x Santano

In the frozen semen situations, I only try once or twice, depending on how late in the year it is, then I switch to fresh cooled.  UB-40 and Gaspard De La Nuit DG are my choices for fresh cooled stallions this year.

Question from a Reader: Thinking in Generations

One of the most gratifying aspects of writing this journal over the years is the number of people I've met and friendships I've made through conversations that have been generated by what I've written. I am always willing to talk horses and to share my experiences and base of knowledge. The better educated all of us are in North America, the stronger our breeding programs will become and the more respect we'll garner from the international horse-breeding and horse-buying communities. If I can be a part of generating conversations and sharing knowledge, I want to be.  So, always feel free to send me a question or give me a shout to have a conversation. 

The following is part of an email I received recently--I'm using it with permission:

"I was reading your short text on your blog (in regards to the Stallion Show)... thanks for that. I would have a question for you if you don't mind pushing your thoughts a bit more for me... The "thinking in generations".

I remember us having a conversation about the KWPN and the generations thing in 2010. I am still trying to wrap my head around the concept and apply it to my program and general breeding thinking. In general I think I'm much more performance oriented and that you are probably perfectly in the middle. I agreed with your vision and you thought the KWPN was doing it also in 2010.  But do you think they are doing it now? In 2010 they pushed the power and temperament from Van Norel's blood but you don't see that very much now from what I can find. 

It is especially important for me as I am trying to build something for the future around *********. I want to produce 2 or 3 mares out of her that will be the mothers of all or most of my future foals. And I question myself. Will the best choice to produce a very good broodmare is the same as the one to produce a nice marketable foal?...

Anyway it's probably a big question... but as always your thoughts would be welcome."


This are a big questions, but important ones.  Let me break them down into pieces and try to answer fully.

Thinking in Generations:

There are a couple of ways to generalize this concept so that it's a little easier to grasp.  First consideration, think about an extended pedigree--say, one you might see on horsetelex.com.  We all look at a pedigree and ooh and aah over the names we see if we like them, and tilt our heads and make some negative utterance if there's a name or two we don't.  Sometimes, we'll even completely dismiss a horse just because the pedigree isn't "good enough".  Making breeding decisions is just creating the future extended pedigree. Which directly ties to our second consideration, if I'm creating a line of mares in my breeding program that I hope my grandchildren will be using to breed their dressage horses, what base do I want to give them?  Of course, then you have to start assessing a number of things.  First and foremost, is my mareline good enough?  All of the planning and money and time we invest in breeding horses is absolutely pointless if we're not working with the best mareline we can afford/find.  This mareline doesn't have to be the highest ranked in a particular studbook, or, even, famous for producing top horses at breed shows--it has to produce the qualities that you find most important in a horse. For our program, I want a balanced, athletic horse, with a strong ability to sit, that's a little hot, but with a good brain and physical appeal.  Secondly, breeding in generations requires that you understand which stallions blend best with your mareline and which stallions belong in the bottom of the line vs. the top.  For instance, from my perspective, Jazz works on top or on the bottom; Ferro and Ulft are better on the bottom; Krack C or Sandro Hit have to be WAY back in a pedigree; and, I want a good dose of Thoroughbred or Trakehner blood up close.  By making sure you have the right stallions in the right places in the pedigrees of the horses you produce, you increase your odds of producing a horse that will contribute to the next generation of your program.  Also, while on this area of the topic, it's important to consider the motherline of the stallions you're using.  I always want to make sure that the damlines of the stallions we use have produced really well--I think this makes a huge difference in the fillies you decide to keep for your program. Thirdly, you have to be really aware of what's going on in the general KWPN breeding and sport population, and how your program can both contribute and take advantage of the trends.  Right now, the KWPN is so heavy on Jazz blood in its breeding program that it's really important for breeders to be cultivating non-Jazz lines that cross well with Jazz lines.  The good news about this is that if your program is also Jazz heavy, the KWPN is doing a lot of work for you trying to find outcrosses--and, there are so many people trying different outcrosses, it doesn't take too much research to see what's working and what's not working.  

Current Direction of the KWPN:

One of the primary reasons I stay with KWPN horses is that they are constantly evaluating their population of horses and adjusting their selection criteria to produce better horses.  A few years ago, we needed more substance and more power in our dressage breeding.  The Van Norel horses were a great answer to that, and it was a good move on the part of the KWPN to approve more of them.  As it happened, these horses didn't have as positive of an effect on the population as was predicted.  Part of it could be that the wrong mares were taken to these stallions; part of it could be that the Van Norel's didn't put the money into the best trainers, so their stallions didn't achieve the successes in the young horse classes and stallion competitions necessary to attract breeders.  Also, at the same time the KWPN was approving more of the Van Norel horses, Totilas and Valegro hit the big time, so we saw the influx of the Negro x Lord Leatherdale niche and the expanding influence of Gribaldi.  And, of course, there is the Donnerhall effect.  Interestingly enough, the Van Norel horse that keeps showing up successfully in pedigrees is not one of their younger stallions, but one of their much older stallions, Olympic Vincent, the sire of Cabochon.  As I just mentioned above, at this point in time, the KWPN has to be seeking out non-Jazz stallions.  Fortunately, he crosses well with a huge number of other lines. Personally, I don't think anyone is doing just the right cross for Jazz generationally speaking...but I'm going to work on that! More interesting is how the KWPN is going to react to having a growing number of successful Grand Prix dressage horses from the Harness Horse cross with and on Dressage lines.  I wonder if these will be seen as outliers, or if we're going to see more young stallions selected with Harness blood in their pedigrees.  

Breeding for Your Breeding Program vs. Breeding a Marketable Foal:

The ideal situation here is to educate enough of the buying population about what makes a good sport horse for the long haul, then your question is moot; the best horse for your breeding program would be the most marketable foal. Unfortunately, that's no the way of the world here or in Europe.  Black babies, with flashy movement and a pretty face, sired by a "name of the moment" are the typically the quick and more expensive sellers.  Personally, I can't go there.  Other than the times when one of our mares won't conceive to the stallion of my choice, I always breed for a horse that could potentially add to our program.  In my mind, what could be more important to a buyer than the fact that I would be perfectly happy to keep the horse they want to buy? Because, in actuality, the horses I keep for my breeding program should all have the attributes for which I'm selecting:  balance, athleticism, sit, brain, and physical attractiveness.  They can't produce what's not inherent in the genetics.  So, my advice here is always the same--breed for yourself and build your own market.

I hope that answered most of your question(s).  Again, especially those of you who send me emails or call to ask why I'm not writing in my journal, send me a question or discussion prompt--it's a guarantee of a journal entry!